[Spellyans] telling the time

[j.mills at email.com]

Lhuyd's klôh glosses Latin campana 'a bell'.
Jon


_____________________________________ 
Dr. Jon Mills, 
School of European Culture and Languages, 
University of Kent



-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Weatherhill <craig at agantavas.org>
To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
Sent: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:55 pm
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] telling the time


Some revivalists use; seyth eur war'n clock (seven hours on the clock). Is Lhuyd's kloh, 'clock' or 'bell'? 
 
Craig 
 
On 2 Mer 2010, at 15:45, j.mills at email.com wrote: 
 
> DD stands for derived. 
> argloh: [«ř˙gl¥h] DD < ar, cloh, ~ ô’r gloch W, ad. O’clock 
> In other words argloh is derived from ar, cloh. 
> Jon 
> 
> _____________________________________ 
> Dr. Jon Mills, 
> School of European Culture and Languages, 
> University of Kent 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com> 
> To: 'Standard Cornish discussion list' <spellyans at kernowek.net> 
> Sent: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 12:58 pm 
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] telling the time 
> 
> Maybe ar in arglôh is the rare preposition er “for, by”. Gendall > gives arglôh as attested by “DD” as ar, cloh, but he doesn’t > say who or what is referred to by “DD”. 
> Dan 
> 
> From: j.mills at email.com 
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 6:25 PM 
> 
> It is the word klôh that is attested in Lhuyd's Archaeologia. Ar > glôh is unattested. 
> Jon 
> _____________________________________ 
> Dr. Jon Mills, 
> School of European Culture and Languages, 
> University of Kent 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: nicholas williams <njawilliams at gmail.com> 
> To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net> 
> Sent: Mon, Mar 1, 2010 11:31 am 
> Subject: [Spellyans] telling the time 
> In his gerlevran Neil says Lhuyd uses ar glôh for o'clock but adds > ear (ur) is usual in UC. 
> This latter remark is certainly true. In Cornish Simplified Caradar > has: 
> 
> pyth yu an ur? un ur yu. 
> 
> And in his afterword to Trystan hag Ysolt Talek writes: 
> 
> Wosa cona y whrussa sevel orth mos dhe'n gwely bys yn un ur vyttyn. 
> 
> I can find no example of clock time in traditional Cornish. Nor can > I find Lhuyd's ar glôh. 
> 
> We can avoid the use of any word for 'hour' in expressions like > hanter wosa seyth 'half past seven', qwarter dhe naw 'quarter to > nine', ugans mynysen wosa dew 'twenty minutes past two' (though > mynysen is unattested in traditional Cornish). This seems to have > been Caradar's practice when possible. In a letter dated 4th > September 1939 he writes: 
> 
> An bresel a dhallathas dhe unnek ur De Sul vyttyn. Dhe gwarter wosa > unnek y teth gwarnyans bos an escar owth omsettya warnan! 
> 
> In PC the ascended Christ says: 
> 
> rag dry adam a yfarn me a thuk curyn a spern nep try our adro thu'm > pen ' To bring Adam from hell I bore a crown of thorns some three > hours around my head' PC 2553-55. 
> 
> And in CW Noah says: 
> 
> vnpossyble nyngew tra tha wrear all an bys ma awos destrowy an beyse > agy tha ower 'Nothing is impossible to the Creator of all this world > on account of destroying the world within an hour' CW 2386-39 
> 
> Is the use of eur/ur justified in clock time, given that ur/eur > means 'time' rather than 'hour?' Indeed ur (vr, eare) is used almost > exclusively in the expressions pub ur 'always' andyn ur na > 'then' (later nena). Py ur 'when?' is attested twice. In all cases > the sense of ur (vr, eare) is 'time, occasion, moment' rather than > 'hour'. In telling the time, however, we need a word that means > 'hour'. That would seem to suggest our, owre rather than ur, vr, eare. 
> 
> If we want to say 'six o'clock, seven o'clock' should we not use > our 'hour' rather than eur 'time' or imitate Lhuyd's ar glôh (if > indeed he cites such a form): 
> 
> whegh our, seyth our or possibly whegh ar glogh, seyth ar glogh ? 
> 
> Nicholas 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> = 
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-- 
Craig Weatherhill 
 
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