[Spellyans] Spelling: placemanes
Craig Weatherhill
craig at agantavas.org
Fri Jan 29 17:51:11 GMT 2010
Many thanks, Ken. I was reminded of what Albert and Ben wrote when
describing their KD proposal prior to the Commissioners'
recommendations. What they had to say, I totally agree with and
attach it here. I will do the same to the Signage Panel and hope it
encourages some of them to see sense.
Craig
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On 29 Gen 2010, at 16:29, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
> Craig,
>
> There is a policy ( + / - ) for Gaelic place-names, and is in course
> of being strengthened. It is in course of being taken into the
> language planning process as a corpus / usage matter. Your best bet
> is Peadar Morgan who is the appropriate Bord na Gaidhlig officer on
> this.
>
> peadar.morgan at bord-na-gaidhlig.org.uk
>
> I have discussed this issue of Cornish placenames with him. You may
> recall he addressed the CLP conference at Tremough about 3 years ago.
>
> I am aware of a placenames policy in Wales. Originally it was
> handled by the Univ of Wales Board of Celtic Studies and they
> published an authoritative list Rhestr o Enwau Lleoedd at about the
> time of the Bowen Commission on Welsh / bilingual roadsigns. I am
> not sure who handles this now - but I would imagine that the
> authoritative source for placename forms and spellings is probably
> still the Board I imagine if asked the Welsh Language Board would
> come back PDQ with what is current practice.
>
> I imagine too that Peadar would get back to you ASAP if you emailed
> him.
>
> I think there is strength in quoting precedent in other Celtic
> contexts. In Scotland and Wales the matter is determined by
> specialist, expert advice. It is not settled by majority of hands at
> committees.
>
> I am very much with you that placenames are for all. This means
> that they have to be authentic, grounded on sound linguistic /
> onomastic principles and acceptable to a wider public than the
> various language groups alone. I am very pleased if Oliver is of
> similar views.
>
> - pub nerth dhys rag an ober - Ken
>
>
>
>
> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband with new e-mail addresses:-
>
> ken at ferintosh.org
> and also at:-
> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>
> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>
> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
> Ross-shire IV 7 8HX
> Scotland UK
>
> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org
> >
> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 10:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Spelling: placemanes
>
>
>> Ken,
>>
>> This advice is very kind of you. Is there an adopted policy for
>> Gaelic place-name representation in Scotland? Nicholas and Michael -
>> is there such a policy in Ireland? Does anyone know if one is in
>> place
>> for Welsh place-names? Or Breton ones?
>>
>> If so, can I get hold of copies? If there is such precedent, then
>> these can only help in formulating one for Cornwall.
>>
>> Pol and Julyan seem to think that such signage/map representation is
>> for Cornish speakers only. My argument is different - it's for
>> everyone (Oliver seems to agree with that).
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> On 27 Gen 2010, at 10:23, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>>
>>> Craig,
>>>
>>> Many thanks for quick reply. Spelling issues on placename forms
>>> are a most imnportant corpus issue.
>>>
>>> I hope very much that you feel the strength of group support with
>>> you on this. I am sure that Oliver will have strong and positive
>>> views on this informed with a great deal of expertise. He is after
>>> all President of EPNS and can speak with authority.
>>>
>>> Our own experience in Scotland in setting up AAA ( Ainmean Aite na
>>> h- Alba - Gaelic Placenamnes of Scotland) - and incorporating this
>>> in the official Gaelic language planning process is proving most
>>> helpful.
>>> and is beginning to show in the environment.
>>>
>>> Unity is strength and I would suggest that some liaison with this
>>> body will be helpful as a resource and as an exemplar of experience.
>>>
>>> If I can assist in connections shall be glad to do so.
>>>
>>> Kemer wyth - an Ken ken
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband with new e-mail addresses:-
>>>
>>> ken at ferintosh.org
>>> and also at:-
>>> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>>>
>>> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>>>
>>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
>>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>>> Ross-shire IV 7 8HX
>>> Scotland UK
>>>
>>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org
>>> >
>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] BBC Broadcast
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes, Ken, both Oliver and I are included. Our first meeting was
>>>> last
>>>> Friday. That established little more than a basic working practice
>>>> policy and the fact that I will have my work heavily cut out to
>>>> banish
>>>> non-traditional graphs from historic place-names. I will need to
>>>> have
>>>> steel heels fitted for the amount of digging in I'll have to do
>>>> against Pol and Julyan..
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 26 Gen 2010, at 16:01, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Craig and friends.
>>>>>
>>>>> I watched the Inside Out programme courtesy of Sky. My own
>>>>> thoughts were that it did not get us very much further
>>>>> forward. I
>>>>> contributed over an hour of recorded speech - but little more
>>>>> than a
>>>>> couple of snippets were used ( in my view on somewhat perpheral
>>>>> issues).
>>>>>
>>>>> The programme contained a lot of stereoptyping, and I thought that
>>>>> Mick Catmull would have gotten a bit beyond this onto more salient
>>>>> issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand that CLP have set up a placenames working group. I
>>>>> very much trust that people like yourself, Craig , and Oliver
>>>>> Padel
>>>>> have been included.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jenefer and Nev Meek are due to attend a British & Irish seminar
>>>>> on
>>>>> language legislation next week in Edinburgh - and I hope to have
>>>>> the
>>>>> opportunity of a session with them on current issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> - oll an gwella - an Ken ken
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken MacKinnon is now on Broadband with new e-mail addresses:-
>>>>>
>>>>> ken at ferintosh.org
>>>>> and also at:-
>>>>> ken.ferintosh at googlemail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> My former e-mail addresses are no longer able to be used.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Prof) Ken MacKinnon
>>>>> Ivy Cottage, Ferintosh,
>>>>> The Black Isle, by Dingwall,
>>>>> Ross-shire IV 7 8HX
>>>>> Scotland UK
>>>>>
>>>>> Tel: 01349 - 863460
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> To: "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 3:35 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] BBC Broadcast
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I did see this. Some presenter/interviewer from way out of
>>>>>> Cornwall, perpetuating the Dolly Pentreath list and with the
>>>>>> usual
>>>>>> sneery attitude we've come to expect from the BBC. 'Do you speak
>>>>>> Cornish?' he asked the barmaid. 'No," she replied. 'Thank God
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> that,' he said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still, Mick, Ray and Denise held their own. Rather well, I
>>>>>> thought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've missed the Radio Cornwall programme today on which some
>>>>>> academic
>>>>>> from the University of Durham is being allowed to opine that the
>>>>>> Cornish, as a people, don't exist. (If this was done against a
>>>>>> black
>>>>>> or Asian group, there would be all hell to pay and probably
>>>>>> prosecutions as well). Ok, so I don't exist, therefore this
>>>>>> message
>>>>>> has never been sent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 26 Gen 2010, at 14:42, j.mills at email.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For those who missed the BBC broadcast concerning the Cornish
>>>>>>> language (Monday 25 January), it can be found on BBC iPLayer at
>>>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00qg3bb/Inside_Out_South_West_25_01_2010/
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> Fast forward to about 9 mins 50 secs into the programme for the
>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>> concerning the Cornish language.
>>>>>>> Ol an gwella
>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>> _____________________________________
>>>>>>> Dr. Jon Mills,
>>>>>>> School of European Culture and Languages,
>>>>>>> University of Kent
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Spellyans mailing list
>>>>>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>>>>>> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Craig Weatherhill
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Spellyans mailing list
>>>>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>>>>> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Craig Weatherhill
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Craig Weatherhill
>>
>>
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--
Craig Weatherhill
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